| Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Morgan | The people over at Epic Programming Studios have been working in secret for a while now on a very ambicious project. What's is even more remarkable is that they are producing as well! MLC is bridging the gap not only between multiple TI calculators but between TI, HP, and Casio graphing calculators! It is an all On-Calc Programmable language and is much faster than the built in BASIC language and only beaten in speed by ASM/C. Plans are in the works for many of the popular TI Calculators. The TI-86 version is for the most part already complete. What this means to all of you is that if you write a program for MLC it will work not only on your calculator, but on all HP, Casio, and TI models as well. Please check out the site for more details. There is too much to say here.
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 | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Xero Xcape | This is probably the best thing to happen to calcs since ASM was used on the early 92s and 85s!!!
It's like BASIC and ASM all together! plus built in Greyscale! I can't wait until a 89 (hopefully) or a 83+ (gaurenteed) comes out!!!
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BASIC flames are for n00bs, you don't want to be a n00b do you? | My other calc is a Porsche. | | 11 Mar 2005, 08:13 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | I can't wait as well! I hope they will fix the size problem (prgms cannot be larger than 9.1 KB) so that I can make a RPG with it. :)
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 11 Mar 2005, 11:30 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Morgan | | I didn't actually read about that size limit! For the 86 that will at least be an upgrade! However for the 68k calculators this could be a bit of a determent. I'm sure they will put there best hand forward and do all they can. They know just how cool this is! | | 11 Mar 2005, 12:33 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | The size limit's only on the 86 version, since it doesn't have virtually unlimited RAM like those Casios. | | 13 Mar 2005, 09:45 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | Well, there's always going to be a certain size limit, but I'm working on increasing it to 10 KB, possibly more (if I'm lucky). Also, remember that you can do a lot more in 9 KB with MLC than you can in the same size with BASIC, especially compressed MLC. ;-) | | 13 Mar 2005, 09:37 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | Well, technically the size limit only applies to the 86 and 83, if you want your game to be able to run on one of those calcs it needs to be that under that size. if you have a better calc and dont care about older models then you can make a game of what ever size you want. (on the HP version you can use the entire SD card if you want :D )
also, burntfuse (or 86 programmer) has made a compresser that reduces the size of any MLC program signifigantly (6.9KB to ~3.5KB), but you cant edit it in that format. Of course thats not a problem if you only want to play the game, not program it. | | 11 Mar 2005, 13:41 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Morgan | | Which calculators are currently being worked on? | | 11 Mar 2005, 14:11 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | TI-86 (almost complete), TI-83+, Casio AFX. The TI-83+ is the weakest calc supported.
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 11 Mar 2005, 16:10 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | The 86 version is just in being debuged before a final release, there may also be some work to be done on 16x16 sprite collisions but other than that its done. :)
CalculusRunner actually went and made a MLC sprite maker in MLC, since the Ti86 was lacking one you can use his instead: http://members.cox.net/drumnerd/SprtMkr/v0.6/SprtMkr.txt (beta)
We at EPS look forward to seeing any game you all can come up with, if you need help or just want to show us your game feel free to post on the offical MLC board on our site. :D | | 11 Mar 2005, 21:59 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | Calcgames.org and ticalc.org should open a TI-86 MLC section so we could post all MLC programs that have been made so far (there is a quite large selection, including those included with the shell).
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 12 Mar 2005, 12:15 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | zkostik | That's possible...is there a decent number of games available?
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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 | | 12 Mar 2005, 16:42 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | there's already a section on MLC games at casiocalc.org, you can pull from there if you want. http://www.casiocalc.org/?to=fsdisplay.php&cat2disp=FS.MLC.Programs
the casio community is waiting for MLCafx to catch up with MLC86, some of the best features are missing so we havent been able to really make cool games, but there's nothing holding the Ti86 users back from getting a head start. ;) | | 12 Mar 2005, 21:15 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | Go to dysfunction.co.nr, get an account, go into the MLC forum, and look in the "MLC games" topic. | | 13 Mar 2005, 09:38 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Coolv | | Check out the MLC board on my 'site! | | 13 Mar 2005, 18:57 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | korkow | | Ya, Im already mastering it on my 86! It's SOOOOO much easier than asm, but almost as good! | | 11 Mar 2005, 14:09 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Morgan | | You mean right after I gave you all those good ASM tips :-) Well that is still very cool! I definitely have to check this out myself. | | 11 Mar 2005, 14:13 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Coolv | | I hear that someone is working on a 89 version. | | 12 Mar 2005, 10:32 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | 4nic8 will work on it once he finishes the AFX version but he hasnt been online for one months. I hope he's not retiring from the TI/Casiuo community. :(
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 12 Mar 2005, 12:16 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | he's not, and i know where he is and what hes doing. he's in the process of switching over to linux and untill very recently couldnt come online, etc... he still hasnt found a way to compile things for his calc yet though, thats the real holdup. | | 12 Mar 2005, 12:26 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Tell him I wish him luck... Unfortunately, I have been using Linux for years, and haven't been able to do much calc work with it. I need to use windows for it, using a dual-boot system. *sigh* | | 12 Mar 2005, 16:40 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Unbelievable. I tried this out, and I can't wait to learn this language! I think a tutorial would be helpful, though. I'm not used to the syntax, but this really is good!! The greyscale thing is a huge plus, and it's much faster than BASIC! Maybe I might try to program Zilak for it sometime. This is awesome!! | | 12 Mar 2005, 16:44 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | here's a link to a basic tutorial: http://dysfunction.earthforge.com/mlc/documentation/tutorial.txt
this does not cover all the commands supported by the 86, but it does cover everything supported by the AFX. when you master that much of it I suggest that you visit our forums or e-mail me for more info. ;) | | 13 Mar 2005, 05:47 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Rasputin | | when can we expect the release of the 83+ version, and will it be compatible with the black versions? | | 12 Mar 2005, 19:16 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | you'll need to ask gimpynerd about that, he's in charge of the 83 version. untill recently we wernt even sure that we would be able to do grayscale on the 83 (it would still use the same sentax but dark gray would be show as black, ect), but since Jim e released a new grayscale package we think we can use it to have good looking and fast grayscale graphics on the 83. | | 12 Mar 2005, 21:20 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | Kv83 of Maxcoderz has graciously offered us a hand with the 83 version of MLC, with his help we should be able to start producing MLC83 beta's soon :) | | 15 Mar 2005, 12:00 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | Sw33t! I can't wait for it!
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 15 Mar 2005, 17:16 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Tim McMahon | | Keep it real! ASM/C should be learn'ed by everyone since they're the fastest!
Developing such a language is like... like... JAVA! | | 13 Mar 2005, 01:57 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | Of course asm is the fastest and most size-efficient (in most cases), but some find it too confusing, or too time-consuming, or would like to be able to program easily on-calc, or would just like to be able to slap together a game in 10 minutes when they get an idea, rather than spending weeks on coding and debugging. | | 13 Mar 2005, 09:44 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | I know ASM, but this is great! Even though I can code ASM on calc anytime on my 86, this is awesome because I can go right to greyscale. Pretty cool! | | 13 Mar 2005, 10:40 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | allynfolksjr | | You know, I'm gonna have to go with Tim on this one. | | 13 Mar 2005, 10:48 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | You have a point, but your missing the reall point of MLC, first off, MLC is ment to bridge the gap between several diffrent groups of people, Casio and Ti programmers for one, and Basic and ASM programmers for another. A person who programs basic may do so (like me) because you can do it anywhere, or they may just not be able to understand ASM. MLC can allow them freedom to program anywhere, and teach them a more complex language so that one day they might make the jump to ASM. Also, by having a language that works on Casio's, Ti's, and Hp's we effectively tripple the amount of programmers producing games for the every model of calculator, and we tripple the amount of feedback to the programmers so that they can make more games people like. etc...
Comparing MLC to Java may seem like a good comparison, but its really apples to oranges, MLC is a bridge and a tool, where as Java is a luxury that you dont really need, but can use if you dont really care... MLC preaty much replaces BASIC, Java replaces nothing, its just one of many options.
sure, you can learn ASM, thats great... and if you already know ASM i dont expect you to use MLC, but you will be limited by the restrictions it has, just as MLC will be limited by its restrictions. You'll have more speed and flexability, but we'll have 3x the games and users and bad grades in math ;)
to each his own. but in a month or two BASIC will be obsoleat (except for kevin of course, *sigh* its almost embarassing how good his Basic games are...) [/diatribe]
:D | | 15 Mar 2005, 12:21 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Basic will be replaced by MLC, however primarily only for gaming. For example, my Chem and Math BASIC progs would be a pain to write in MLC due to complex math operations involving matrices and other things. However, I do agree that BASIC will no longer be a primary game-programming language after ASM. Now MLC will be a great alternative! Im actually writing a game in MLC on my 86. It may be a Zelda-type thing. Ill post animated screenies in the Forum when I'm ready. | | 15 Mar 2005, 16:34 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Tim McMahon | | I agree that it will bring the communities together in the aspect of an advanced Basic cross-platform programming. However, this may slow the development of programs *calculator specific* to get the optimal performance of such a program on that calculator. Lowering the scale to a level where everyone can communicate isn't really going to help people become elite programmers.
Basic is far too easy to learn and accessible, why can't TI make ASM just as easy to learn? Such as having a *Altered Basic* -> Hex -> ASM oncalc compiler? This would dim down the commands a bit, if not explain then easily (such has have 'jump' as to 'jp'). About 1/4th of the code in ASM seems to be Hex and Hex isn't the easiest to reverse engineer. | | 15 Mar 2005, 22:52 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Ya those are cool. Ive programmed as ASM game all oncalc using an on-calc ASM compiler. I just enter ASM commands in the IDE as a normal ASM file, and hit build, and i get my prog. Although those fancy compiler-specific commands dont work. but the basics do. | | 16 Mar 2005, 16:45 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | JcCorp | | I'm thoroughly impressed. Exactly how will this span each calc, will a game on the 83+ be usable on an 86 and vice-versa? | | 13 Mar 2005, 09:58 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | It appears so, because those games they have as samples work on both 86 and Casio. Except Bomber, which gives an error when I run it on the 86... | | 13 Mar 2005, 10:42 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | hmm, mabey there's something in bomber that we didnt implement the same in both versions... thanks for pointing that out, i'll point it out to burnt and nic. | | 13 Mar 2005, 16:32 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | Oh yeah, that's only because MLC86 can only shift the screen ~12 pixels vertically at the moment because of memory restrictions (It's been corrected in the version I'm working on). | | 14 Mar 2005, 14:23 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Anyone know why I get a stack underrun error when I run the program in the tutorial on my 86? I did follow the instructions... | | 13 Mar 2005, 13:08 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | Which program is giving the error? the simple STARS program or the more complex version? | | 15 Mar 2005, 11:22 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Actually the rectangle one. The first one. It draws rectangles, pauses, and when I hit enter, i get an error. If I hit [ON] it exits fine. I noticed I need to hit [ON] to exit all the sample progs i tried that came with MLC. No big deal, just wondering why that happens. | | 15 Mar 2005, 16:36 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | BASIC prgms are exited that way too. Well it would be better with EXIT on the 86 though
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 15 Mar 2005, 17:20 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | thats very odd, I wonder if burnt required that you use #HALT to exit the program... any MLC program will terminate if you press ON, but HALT stops execution from the code. try putting HALT after PAUS and see if it exits correctly. | | 16 Mar 2005, 03:08 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | Kevin | he should require it, and he shouldnt require that you start a prgm by clearing the screen. That way prgms would be even smaller
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http://omnimaga.org - The most active TI calculator programming team around and a massive RPG selection | | 16 Mar 2005, 06:17 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | nah, because the thing me and nic were assuming with MLC is that like C the program would end if it reached the end of the MAIN function. | | 16 Mar 2005, 09:17 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | I DIDN'T require that you start a program by clearing the screen. Maybe you misinterpreted the readme...it said that the screen is CLEARED FOR YOU at the beginning. | | 19 Mar 2005, 15:25 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Works now. All fixed. So.. This final version for the 86... an estimation of release date? | | 17 Mar 2005, 17:10 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | Fairly soon, most likely within a month.
Sorry about the bug, it'll be fixed. | | 19 Mar 2005, 15:26 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | greenorange | | Another bug found: Screen doesnt shift up with this code:
#SHFT .0 .-1 .-1
It works with all other directions, but not this. And none of the samples used that direction of shift. Something to look at... | | 13 Mar 2005, 16:34 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | CrimsonCasio | | thanks, good job :)
btw, i'd appreciate it if you'd post the bugs on the MLC forum so that we dont miss them :( | | 14 Mar 2005, 08:55 GMT |
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| | | Re: Epic Programming has MLC in the Works! | burntfuse | | Hey, thanks for the bug reports! I'm still working on the final version, so there's still a chance to correct the problems. ;-) | | 14 Mar 2005, 14:25 GMT |
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