--- Log opened Sun Feb 01 00:00:15 2009
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01:29 < TheStorm> hey Tari you there?
02:13 < Tari> I'm here now
02:15 < TheStorm> it seems you messed up your wordpress install for lifos as I can't register to comment on teh lack of activity
02:17 < Tari> blame glenn
02:17 < Tari> but I'll have a look at it
02:17 < TheStorm> well I can but it never sent the email containing the the pass
02:17 < TheStorm> you know you could just make an account for me 
02:18 < TheStorm> and give me access to the repo so if I get off my lazy ass and do some work I can commit it
02:50 < BrandonW> http://wikiti.denglend.net/ now redirects to brandonw.net.
02:51 < Tari> TheStorm, you can always check out a copy of the repo
02:51 < TheStorm> Yeah I knwo but I can't commit anything
02:52 < Tari> and?
02:52 < Tari> if you end up doing something, just let me know
02:52 < Tari> assuming it's not total garbage, I can grant you write access
02:53 < Tari> and if it is total garbage, I can let you know why it is :)
02:56 < TheStorm> Oh I'm sure it will be :P
02:56 < TheStorm> but thanks for the confidence boost
02:57 < TheStorm> oh brandon I found a page that needs fixing http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=Link_cables#Serial_cables
02:57 < TheStorm> the links to the images are broken
02:57 < BrandonW> GAHH!!!
02:59  * chronomex snickers quietly
02:59 < BrandonW> I'm not sure I really understand why images were set up the way they were.
03:01 <@chronomex> yeah, that's a bit weird
03:01 < BrandonW> They hacked up MediaWiki to get categories to work, too.
03:02 < BrandonW> And that's completely changed in 1.13.3 (they were on 1.6.10), so I don't know how to fix it.
03:03 -!- Tari [~Tari@mke-66-97-120-39.milwpc.com] has quit [Quit: Rebooting to finalize TortoiseSVN install]
03:04 <@chronomex> The requested URL /index.php was not found on this server.
03:04 <@chronomex> ohnoes
03:05 <@chronomex> it's broken again :(
03:05 < BrandonW> grr...
03:05 < BrandonW> I fixed it, but it's going to take a couple of minutes to show up.
03:06 <@chronomex> okay
03:06 <@chronomex> there it is 
03:06 < BrandonW> I was trying to set up FTP accounts for only that domain, but my hosting is being stupid.
03:07 <@chronomex> ah
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03:19 < BrandonW> Alright, FTP access is set up, so they can fix it however magical way they want.
03:24 < Tari> there you go, TheStorm
03:24 < Tari> we're up to revision 41 now
03:27 < TheStorm> woot
03:27 < TheStorm> That was the first time Vista's ever crashed on me 
03:27 < Tari> couple silly bugs fixed, added the unit tests
03:28 < TheStorm> and it did so gracefully and gave me a minutes warning be foer shuting down
03:29 < BrandonW> That's the first time Vista's crashed on you? How long have you had it, 15 minutes?
04:20 <+DrDnar> I've had XP hang after having it up for a long time. 
04:20 <+DrDnar> Four months, I think it was.
04:21 < BrandonW> I haven't restarted in at least 47 days.
04:22 <+DrDnar> I don't know what made Microsoft think automatic restarting after automatic updates was a good idea.
04:23 <+DrDnar> I'm up late one night doing homework. . . and then I wasn't.
04:23 < BrandonW> It makes sense as long as I have the option to turn it off.
04:23 <+DrDnar> I found it could be changed to automatic downloading, but manual install.
06:30 < BrandonW> How Ion installs itself is extremely disturbing.
06:31 < Nikky> YOu shall not insult ion
06:31 < BrandonW> I'm not...it's pure genius.
06:31 < Nikky> Good.
06:41 < BrandonW> Joe Wingbermuehle was a man who knew what he was doing.
06:42 < Nikky> He's my hero
06:42 < BrandonW> NO MINE
06:42 < Nikky> OKay, he's yours.
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07:33 < BrandonW> HAHAHAHA, bug in OS 1.16.
07:34 < BrandonW> It resets one more byte of RAM than it's supposed to.
07:34 < BrandonW> So it tries to zero out 00:0000h.
07:35 <@chronomex> hah
07:35 <@chronomex> what is that pointing to?
07:36 < BrandonW> What do you mean?
07:36 < BrandonW> Oh, it's page 0.
07:36 < BrandonW> It's in ROM.
07:36 < BrandonW> So nothing happens.
07:36 < BrandonW> It's just stupid.
07:36 <@chronomex> ah
07:36 <@chronomex> weird
08:36 < BrandonW> I wish I knew what the hell TI was thinking with the field search routines.
08:36 < BrandonW> All I want to do is find the end of an application!
09:03 < BrandonW> I hate TI.
09:03 < BrandonW> They have sucked up every last safe haven for free RAM.
09:05 <@chronomex> :( what?
09:07 < BrandonW> I'm trying to do something that requires RAM which isn't touched by anything, ever.
09:07 < BrandonW> And that's not...easy.
09:07 < Nikky> :(
09:17 < BrandonW> I really don't like it, but I'm going to have to take it off the hardware stack.
09:17 < BrandonW> I know some programs use that, plus there's always the worry of a stack overflow...
09:17 < BrandonW> But oh well I guess.
09:21 < BrandonW> The nature of this application is incredibly unstable to start with.
09:21 <@chronomex> what does it do?
09:22 < BrandonW> I can't say, it's the Cemetech contest entry and there's a judge in here.
09:22 <@chronomex> ah
09:22 < BrandonW> It's killing me not being able to say, though.
09:22 <@chronomex> you can /msg me, I won't tell
09:23 < Nikky> He's making an OS
09:23 < Nikky> no big deal
09:25 < BrandonW> It's not an OS.
09:25 < BrandonW> Otherwise I wouldn't care about TI-OS saferam areas.
09:26 < Nikky> it's a cover
09:26 < Nikky> we all know
09:26 < BrandonW> Actually I probably would, because any OS I write would have maximum backwards compatibility.
09:26 < BrandonW> Nikky, I think if you think really hard about it, you might figure it out.
09:27 < Nikky> Too bad my brain is missing
09:29 < BrandonW> It might get disqualified.
09:29 < BrandonW> But it really needs to be written anyway.
09:30 < Nikky> yeah
09:59 < BrandonW> I'm pretty sure this is one of the wackiest things I've written.
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12:24 < BrandonW> I've written a ton of code tonight, but I've still barely started.
15:27 < TehStorm> yeah tari being a judge has made things hrad for me, normaly I talk to him about my projects and now I can't :(
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17:24 -!- mode/#tiasm [+v DrDnar] by efneTI80
18:09 < BrandonW> It'll be a small miracle if I actually finish this.
18:09 < BrandonW> The bulk of it is still theoretical.
18:09 < BrandonW> I haven't even gotten to that part yet.
18:10 < BrandonW> I'm doing stuff that's never been done before.
18:10 < BrandonW> I've thought of it before, but never done it.
18:10 < BrandonW> It's going to be epic if it works, though.
18:13 < BrandonW> There are two parts to this, and I'm pretty tired of working on the first one, so I guess I'll try and knock out the second one before tomorrow morning.
18:14 < BrandonW> That puts the pressure on getting the rest done next weekend.
18:18 < Nikky> WWuss.
18:50 < BrandonW> I really should be doing the second one first anyway...I think that's what's holding me up on the first.
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20:44 <+DrDnar> What are you doing?
20:45 < BrandonW> I have to be cryptic when talking about it because there's a Cemetech contest judge in here.
20:45 <@chronomex> morning
20:46  * Tari waves
20:46 <@chronomex> hey
20:47 < BrandonW> I haven't told a single soul what it is and it's killing me.
20:47 <@chronomex> you can tell me!  I won't share, promise
20:48 <+DrDnar> privmsg?
20:48 <@chronomex> yes
20:48 <@chronomex> or ... not
20:53 < BrandonW> I want to, but I don't.
20:53 < BrandonW> It'll be a personal achievement if I manage to go two weeks without telling anyone.
20:54 <@chronomex> :)  I won't prod you any further, then
20:54 <@chronomex> hopefully you don't go bonkers in the meantime
21:03 < BrandonW> I have coder's block, or whatever it's called.
21:03 < BrandonW> I just keep staring at the code already there and not starting to write anything new.
21:04 <@chronomex> oh, I hate that
21:04 <@chronomex> go for a walk outside, eat some cookies
21:04 < BrandonW> What is this "outside"?
21:05 <@chronomex> you have a house, right?
21:05 <@chronomex> there are several portals to places with a much higher ceiling
21:05 <@chronomex> at least one, probably two
21:05 < BrandonW> You mean that bright place on the other side of the window?
21:05 <@chronomex> yeah
21:06 <@chronomex> but don't go out the window unless you can see that the floor is close enough
21:06 < BrandonW> That place scares me. I think there are other people out there.
21:06 <@chronomex> well, yeah, but if you walk properly, you can avoid them
21:18 < BrandonW> Okay, I took a walk.
21:32 < BrandonW> It just requires an insane amount of planning and I can't just start pounding out code until it's all figured out.
21:32 < BrandonW> That's what makes it so hard.
21:32 < BrandonW> Kinda the same thing with periph8x.
21:32 <@chronomex> ah, yeah
21:32 <@chronomex> I tend to do more planning than actual writing, so I never finish anything
21:48 < BrandonW> Unbelievable how much I've written on how this is SUPPOSED to work.
21:48 < BrandonW> Reminds me of IOHook.
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22:19 <@chronomex> http://www.bdsoft.com/resources/bdsc.html <-- hmmm
22:21 < Tari> hmm indeed
22:30 < BrandonW> No!
22:32 <@chronomex> no?
22:32 < BrandonW> No.
22:32 <@chronomex> okay
22:33 < BrandonW> C is impractical on the z80, I don't care who wrote what.
22:33 < BrandonW> I can't wait until the code for this is released.
22:35 <@chronomex> for your current secret project?
22:35 < BrandonW> Yes.
22:37 < BrandonW> It's by far the most complicated thing I've written on the 83+ series.
22:38 <@chronomex> wow, sounds impressice
22:39 < BrandonW> I think it'll be a small miracle if I get halfway done.
22:39 < BrandonW> But I think half of this project is enough to win.
22:42 < BrandonW> I hate writing so much code that's completely untested.
22:42 < BrandonW> And then spending a couple of days figuring out what went wrong.
22:42 < BrandonW> But it's just not something that can be tested in pieces.
22:49 < TehStorm> well good luck
22:49 < TehStorm> I should really get back to my entry
22:49 < TehStorm> it has no chance of beating yours but I've been meaning to do it anyway
22:50 < BrandonW> It's entirely possible I won't finish mine and it won't get submitted.
22:51 < BrandonW> It's probably going to be one of those things I do and forget about, because I can't keep in my head how this thing works.
22:51 < BrandonW> Let alone fix any bugs.
22:51 < TehStorm> but mine is kinda stupid and only usefull to a small number of people.
22:52 < BrandonW> That beats something that was never submitted.
22:52 < BrandonW> Mine is something people have wanted for a long time, and another part I don't think anyone even realized was possible.
22:53 <@chronomex> hmmmm
22:53 < TehStorm> lol nice
22:53  * chronomex ponders
22:54 < TehStorm> well let me see if I can remeber where I put the code
22:54 < TehStorm> oh yeah its on my TB external
22:59 < BrandonW> You know it's bad when you have to code a quicksort routine for this...
23:04 < BrandonW> Although that's hardly the worst of it
23:07 < TehStorm> gah its not working
23:07 < TehStorm> and i can't ask for help :(
23:08 < BrandonW> Is there some generic way you can ask a question that doesn't reveal anything about the project?
23:08 < TehStorm> I can't ask for help period though, lets jsut say my hook isn't installing, though the unistall code works fine :(
23:09 < BrandonW> So you're using hooks...
23:09 < BrandonW> DISQUALIFIED!
23:09 < TehStorm> lulz
23:10 < TehStorm> I'm trying to figure out why code that worked in another program I made won't work even though I only made a slight change
23:11 < TehStorm> but again I can't be mroe specific than that :(
23:23 < TehStorm> gah wtf I want to kill this damn program, why do you not work :(
23:27 < TehStorm> is it an emu issues...
23:28 < TehStorm> nope ok wtf
23:29 < TehStorm> so i bork something somewhere...
23:29 < TehStorm> becasue I know this worked at one time
23:35 < BrandonW> I can't get my head around this sort.
23:37 < TehStorm> Ok I'm trying to get my non-contest entry program to work
23:37 < TehStorm> so asking this question is perfectly ok, what would cause installing a hook from ram to fail?
23:38 < TehStorm> as in the same code works fine for an app, but fails when run from a  program
23:38 < BrandonW> Fail as in never fire?
23:38 < TehStorm> fail to install 
23:38 < BrandonW> There is no "failing to install", you set a flag and set up some RAM equates.
23:39 < BrandonW> Does the OS invalidate it immediately and it never fires?
23:39 < TehStorm> That is what seems to be happening.
23:39 < BrandonW> That can happen if you've set the page as zero.
23:39 < BrandonW> The page must be non-zero.
23:39 < BrandonW> So "in a,(6)" is always used, even if from a RAM program.
23:40 < TehStorm> Well I'm doing that but it still  invalidates it.
23:40 < BrandonW> Is the first byte of the hook 83h?
23:40 < BrandonW> Are you sure the RAM you're putting it at isn't being overwritten or moved once the OS gets control again?
23:41 < TehStorm> It shouldn't be.
23:41 < BrandonW> It MUST be copied to saferam somewhere and then installed, because once your program exits, it gets moved from userMem.
23:41 < TehStorm> I know I'm copying it to 8251h
23:41 < BrandonW> That's a bad place for it.
23:41 < BrandonW> It'll get overwritten.
23:41 < TehStorm> really, 
23:41 < BrandonW> Any boot code division and it's gone.
23:41 < BrandonW> Among other things.
23:42 < TehStorm> ok so I need to find anoter place to put it
23:42 < BrandonW> Use nothing at the start of system RAM, it'll be killed.
23:42 < BrandonW> Your only options really are appBackUpScreen or similar.
23:42 < TehStorm> or use an app, which is overkill
23:42 < TehStorm> ok so I guess I'm screwed then :(
23:43 < BrandonW> I started a project once that would embed RAM hooks INSIDE the application (you had to call a special routine in the application instead of the enable/disable BCALLs), making it convenient to have dozens of small hook programs.
23:44 < BrandonW> And it would defragment itself and stuff.
23:44 < BrandonW> Totally plausible, I just never finished it.
23:44 < BrandonW> But it would solve the problem you're having.
23:44 < TehStorm> really I had that same Idea...
23:44 < TehStorm> maybe I was talking to you about it 
23:45 < TehStorm> if I can't get this program working my contest entry is killed also since it used a similar setup
23:46 < BrandonW> I left it out of the repository because it was so incomplete, but I'll add it.
23:46 < BrandonW> I called it RAMHooks.
23:46 < TehStorm> ahh nice
23:47 < TehStorm> So now I'm out of ideas for the contest since that program was doomed from the start, at least form what your saying, unless I threw the code at the start of the stack... 
23:48 < TehStorm> but thats pretty risky
23:48 < BrandonW> Okay, I've added it to the repository. No idea what state it's in, it's been many months since it was touched.
23:48 < BrandonW> It's not only risky, but you have very little to work with. The more you take, the more unstable it is.
23:49 < BrandonW> Plus a lot of programs do usei t.
23:49 < BrandonW> use it.*
23:49 < BrandonW> I've even seen the OS do it with the latest 84+/SE updates.
23:49 < BrandonW> You COULD make RAMHooks your entry.
23:49 < TehStorm> no since you've already started it and such
23:50 < BrandonW> I know it's not 100% original, but if I never finish it, it should be done by somebody.
23:50 < TehStorm> I would have to code it from scratch and I barly know where to start with something like that, let alone I have to mess with unlocking flash.
23:50 < BrandonW> It's a real mess.
23:50 < BrandonW> Defragmenting yourself is not an easy concept.
23:51 < TehStorm> exaclty I do have one other Idea but I don't think I have the asm knowledge to get it working 
23:53 < TehStorm> hmm my code seems to work on calc, but it still has a chance of getting over written
23:54 < BrandonW> I wish I could talk about this stuff.
23:54 < TehStorm> me too
23:56 < TehStorm> hmm I've never seen MSD8x say "INDEXING..." at least not for this long
23:58 < BrandonW> Must be a lot of files.
23:58 < BrandonW> Or a fragmented drive.
23:58 < TehStorm> I think it was big files
--- Log closed Mon Feb 02 00:00:13 2009