--- Log opened Sun Dec 28 00:00:04 2008
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00:44 -!- mode/#tiasm [+o SnowCrash] by efneTI80, efneTI86
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03:14 < BrandonW> I'm witnessing something extremely bizarre on the 73 hardware.
03:15 < BrandonW> Something funky about page swapping.
03:15 <@chronomex> hm?
03:17 < BrandonW> I really don't understand it at all, nor can I put it into words.
03:17 <@chronomex> hm
03:19 < BrandonW> Something that works perfectly on the 83+ is completely intermittent on the 73.
03:19 < BrandonW> The exact same code works differently between two different programs.
03:19 < BrandonW> One is just named differently and is a little larger than the other.
03:20 <@chronomex> that's sort of weird
03:21 < BrandonW> Sometimes, when it crashes, it erases the OS.
03:21 < BrandonW> Only oncalc. This is impossibly hard to debug.
03:21 <@chronomex> wow, erases the OS?
03:21 < BrandonW> Well, does something that prevents it from booting properly.
03:21 < BrandonW> To where I must resend it.
03:22 < BrandonW> Which is easily do-able by jumping to the right spot on page 1Fh.
03:23 <@chronomex> huh
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03:50 < BrandonW> Thank god, I finally reproduced it in an emulator.
03:50 < BrandonW> Now to find out what's going on.
03:50 <@chronomex> really? that's sort of impressive
03:50 <+DrDnar> What project is this?
03:51 < BrandonW> It's a really long story, but the project is Chameleon and getting Flash applications working properly.
03:55 < BrandonW> Absolutely mind-boggling, two programs that start out exactly the same produce different results.
03:56 < BrandonW> The executable part at the beginning is identical.
04:03 < BrandonW> Okay, maybe I haven't recreated it.
04:09 < Nikky> Oh look, it's a loser.
04:09  * chronomex stabs Nikky 
04:09 < Nikky> Not you.
04:09 < Nikky> I mean BrandonW 
04:09 <@chronomex> I know
04:09 < BrandonW> I am a loser. :( I can't figure this out.
04:09 < Nikky> Tard.
04:09 <@chronomex> I sort of like him
04:09 <@chronomex> unlike you Nikky
04:09 < Nikky> Because you... love me?
04:10 <@chronomex> no!
04:10 < Nikky> :(
04:10 <@chronomex> just cos I watched Obama get elected at your house doesn't mean I want to have sex with you
04:10 <@chronomex> but that doesn't mean that I _don't_
04:10 <@chronomex> it just means that's not the reason
04:10 < Nikky> mm, that was a great party
04:11 <@chronomex> s/don't/didn't/g
04:11 < Nikky> I don't really remember much after the victory announcement.
04:11 <@chronomex> real change?
04:11 < Nikky> haha
04:11 < Nikky> I kind of miss that.
04:11 < Nikky> I keep expecting to wake up to "real change"
04:11 <@chronomex> well you should be quiet and let BrandonW talk again
04:12 < Nikky> Yeah, it's your fault.
04:12 < BrandonW> He never lets me talk.
04:12 < BrandonW> He's so mean.
04:12 <@chronomex> who, me?
04:12  * Nikky quiets
04:12 < BrandonW> Nikky.
04:12 <@chronomex> yeah, that's what I thought
04:12 <@chronomex> on IRC two people can't talk at once
04:15 < BrandonW> In Soviet Russia IRC talks on you!
04:16 <@chronomex> hoshit
04:16 < BrandonW> Okay, yeah, I really am losing my mind...two programs with the same code, one crashes and the other doesn't.
04:16 < BrandonW> Only on a real 73.
04:16 <@chronomex> relocation errors?
04:18 < BrandonW> There's no relocation going on here.
04:18 <@chronomex> oh?
04:18 < Nikky> ?ho
04:18 < BrandonW> The same exact code running from 9D95h in both programs.
04:19 < BrandonW> The only difference is the location of the subroutine that they call.
04:19 <@chronomex> ah
04:19 < BrandonW> Naturally in different places because each program has other junk between the call to the routine and the actual routine.
04:19 <@chronomex> right
04:19 < BrandonW> That and the program name are the ONLY differences.
04:19 <@chronomex> try padding the shorter one to make it the same length
04:19 < BrandonW> Or just put the routine at the beginning of both programs.
04:20 < BrandonW> They both call it and return, nothing else.
04:20 <@chronomex> yes
04:23 < BrandonW> The program runs fine on the 73 emulator and crashes on the real 73.
04:23 < BrandonW> The ROMs and the boot code are 100% identical.
04:23 < BrandonW> I'm doing nothing funky with the hardware.
04:25 < BrandonW> Make it work. :(
04:26 < Netham45> BrandonW, long shot, but have you checked your batteries?
04:27 < BrandonW> Batteries would have nothing to do with it, and I actually saw it crash once on the 73 emulator, somehow.
04:27 < Netham45> well, I know the 83+ acts funky with low batteries, and the 73 is just an earlier revision....
04:28 < BrandonW> The 83+ does not act funky with low batteries.
04:28 < Netham45> mine does, especially when I do stuff like run apps...
04:28 < BrandonW> Impossible.
04:29 < BrandonW> What's an example of how it behaves differently?
04:29 < Netham45> when I go to run an app, sometimes it just kicks my back to a garbled homescreen
04:29 < Netham45> I just seem to generally notice more random crashes and such
04:31 <+DrDnar> Maybe TI is now selling calcs with flaky RAM.
04:31 < BrandonW> For that to happen, the RAM self-test would fail.
04:32 <+DrDnar> Next they'll cheep out on the CPUs.
04:32 < Netham45> well, it always seemed to me like it was more of an issue with the ROM
04:32 < BrandonW> What, bits randomly flipping in the Flash?
04:32 < Netham45> no, just failed reads when my batteries are low
04:34 < BrandonW> I don't believe it.
04:34 < BrandonW> This has never once failed on an 83+.
04:34 <@chronomex> remember, this _is_ TI
04:34 < BrandonW> And I'm doing something that really shouldn't even be possible.
04:34 < BrandonW> Running the 83+ OS on the 73 hardware.
04:34 < BrandonW> AH-HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
04:34 < BrandonW> It finally ran.
04:35 < BrandonW> I don't understand why, but it finally ran.
04:35 <@chronomex> what'd you change?
04:35 <+DrDnar> I hate that feeling.
04:35 < Netham45> I hate over the airTV at 10 PM......
04:35 < BrandonW> The code I'm trying to run is the 83+ Flash unlock exploit, which only sometimes works. It's a hard-core exploit of the _WriteFlash entry point, which exists in the boot code.
04:35 < BrandonW> That routine is radically different between the 73 and 83+ boot pages.
04:35 <@chronomex> ah
04:35 < BrandonW> In terms of stack usage, anyway.
04:35 < BrandonW> Which I'm screwing with.
04:36 <+DrDnar> Perhaps you should simply code it into the replacement OS.
04:36 < BrandonW> I've had that in my head for the past several hours, yes, but why does it only SOMETIMES work?
04:36 < BrandonW> There has to be more to it.
04:38 < BrandonW> I suppose it's a random fluke that it worked at all, depending on the values on the stack when the program was being run, which could possibly be different at different times.
04:38 < BrandonW> After executing certain instructions or exiting certain menus or what have you.
04:38 < BrandonW> But I don't like just going with that.
04:38 < Netham45> prove it, copy the stack somewhere else, and start writing from the first stack entry and see its success rate.
04:39 < BrandonW> I've been banging my head against the wall for hours on this and can't reliably reproduce it in an emulator so I have no idea what the stack looks like in these instances.
04:39 < BrandonW> It's impossible to test for.
04:40 <+DrDnar> Perhaps you could write a program to dump the RAM.
04:40 <+DrDnar> or at least core sections of it.
04:41 < BrandonW> Speaking of dumping stuff, I'd like to dump the ROM when no OS is loaded.
04:41 < BrandonW> Totally possible, I just never finished the code for it.
04:41 < BrandonW> The purpose being finding out what went wrong with your OS when the boot code refuses to boot it.
04:41 < BrandonW> You could find out if it was as simple as 5Ah not being at 0056h, or it erased one of your sectors (which?), and so on.
04:42 < BrandonW> It's really just a buffer overflow (a really big one, to the point of corrupting the stack) by sending a really large link packet.
04:42 < BrandonW> And from there, you get control and can execute your own code which has a minimal ROM dumper which spits it all back out the link port.
04:43 < BrandonW> I never wrote the ROM dumping part, just the stuff about executing code with no OS.
04:46 < BrandonW> I still say there's more to it, you can freshly reset RAM on both the real 73 and the emulator and one crashes and the other doesn't.
04:46 < BrandonW> The stack should be identical at that point.
04:50 < BrandonW> Dumping the RAM wouldn't practically help.
04:55 < BrandonW> I HATE THE 73
04:55 < BrandonW> Two days on this app force loading program so I could install Calcsys, and it still doesn't show up in the APPS menu.
04:57 < BrandonW> That's fine, I'll jump directly to it...
04:57 < BrandonW> I'm running Calcsys on this thing, damn it.
04:59 < BrandonW> ...works on the emulator, crashes on the 73...
05:03 < BrandonW> Right, the execution permissions...
05:03 < BrandonW> BAH!!!!!
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05:24 < BrandonW> Okay, still not running.
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05:25 <@efneTI92> [Netham45] Narf!
05:26 < BrandonW> I tried directly calling "ret" on page 15h and it crashed, so apparently the execution permissions don't work like I figured.
05:30 < BrandonW> I don't understand, this should be working.
05:30 <+DrDnar> The only thing execution permissions have stopped is you.
05:31 <+DrDnar> We could do things like run short snippets of ASM code directly from the archive.
05:32 < BrandonW> When have you been able to do that?
05:32 <+DrDnar> I'm saying that we could if it wasn't for them denying execution of the archive.
05:33 < BrandonW> It's piss easy to do that with the universal unlock exploit.
05:33 < BrandonW> Call it, and then make outputs (from RAM) to ports 05h and 16h.
05:33 <+DrDnar> Oh, true.
05:33 < BrandonW> Or just _SetFlashLowerBound.
05:33 < BrandonW> But that doesn't exist on the 73.
05:36 < BrandonW> So how in the world does the 73 work..
05:36 < BrandonW> The OS doesn't make outputs to port 16h.
05:36 < BrandonW> And there's no support in the boot code for changing it.
05:48 < BrandonW> I have no idea. :(
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06:13 < BrandonW> Well, I give up. Can't execute code on page 15h despite the execution permissions being set correctly, and even incorrectly.
06:14 < BrandonW> I guess I'll have to sleep on it.
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09:40 <@efneTI92> [Netham45] Narf!
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21:42 <@efneTI92> [Netham46] Narf!
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 29 00:00:05 2008