--- Log opened Wed Jul 16 02:57:12 2008
[02:58:36] -!- V200 [~V200@v200.calcg.org] has joined #tiasm
[02:58:36] -!- Topic for #tiasm: TI Calculator Assembly discussion/help
[02:58:36] -!- Topic set by efneTI86 [aardrop@nightshade.epfarms.org] [Mon Jun 23 01:05:35 2008]
[02:58:36] [Users #tiasm]
[02:58:36] [@efneTI80] [@efneTI86] [@SnowCrash] [+Storm_Log] [ BrandonW] [ Nikky] 
[02:58:36] [@efneTI81] [@efneTI92] [+aksnowman] [+Tari     ] [ efneTI85] [ V200 ] 
[02:58:36] [@efneTI83] [@Remius  ] [+DrDnar   ] [+TheStorm ] [ Milyardo] 
[02:58:36] -!- Irssi: #tiasm: Total of 17 nicks [7 ops, 0 halfops, 5 voices, 5 normal]
[02:58:36] -!- Channel #tiasm created Mon Mar 28 17:08:12 2005
[02:58:36] -!- Irssi: Join to #tiasm was synced in 0 secs
[02:59:25] <+DrDnar> I'll have a menu: Scan or retrieve. The user first scans for objects, then runs the program again to retrieve objects. A piece of paper is needed to make note of objects the user wishes to retrieve.
[03:07:30] <+DrDnar> http://pws.cablespeed.com/~tehblueblur/ti83p/archutil.z80 and http://pws.cablespeed.com/~tehblueblur/ti83p/archutil.z80
[03:12:34] < BrandonW> The last sector of archive memory is 64KB.
[03:12:55] < BrandonW> When I'm talking about sectors, I'm talking about physical memory.
[03:13:29] < BrandonW> The last sector is 68h, yes.
[03:13:32] < BrandonW> And the last page is 69h.
[03:13:35] < BrandonW> And so that's half a sector.
[03:13:38] < BrandonW> But they ARE 64KB.
[03:13:53] < BrandonW> It doesn't end on a sector boundary, correct.
[03:13:57] < BrandonW> Which is damn annoying.
[03:14:02] < BrandonW> But true.
[03:14:07] < BrandonW> And the certificate sectors are 8KB.
[03:14:30] <+DrDnar> Does the OS even have certificate checking routines?
[03:15:00] < BrandonW> The OS deals with the certificate a LOT.
[03:15:13] < BrandonW> What exactly do you mean by checking?
[03:15:21] <+DrDnar> Even though they've never ever been used?
[03:15:44] <+DrDnar> Maybe Certificates could be hacked to do useful stuff for us.
[03:15:58] < BrandonW> The certificate is used a lot.
[03:16:04] < BrandonW> All the time, in fact.
[03:16:10] < BrandonW> The app presence bitmap is there.
[03:16:35] < BrandonW> The certificate is very locked down.
[03:16:41] <+DrDnar> Ooooh, scaaary.
[03:16:42] < BrandonW> You can make it do good things, but impossible without an exploit.
[03:16:54] < BrandonW> Because they'll involve the public key at some point.
[03:16:57] < BrandonW> Which is stored in the certificate.
[03:17:12] < BrandonW> You can calculate the last 4 digits of the calc ID, for example.
[03:17:17] < BrandonW> But it requires the public key from the certificate.
[03:17:22] < BrandonW> Which...you need an exploit to access.
[03:17:34] < BrandonW> And at that point, you might as well be just reading it from the fields.
[03:19:00] < BrandonW> BCALL 8081h is an interesting one to look at if you're curious.
[03:19:18] < BrandonW> 80AEh recreates the last 4 digits of the calc ID in case you screwed it up.
[03:19:26] < BrandonW> The calculation is in that routine, naturally.
[03:20:13] < BrandonW> Lots more research needs to be done on the certificate aera.
[03:20:15] < BrandonW> area.*
[03:20:25] < BrandonW> But unfortunately a lot of it will forever remain a mystery.
[03:20:30] <+DrDnar> Do these bcalls bother to check whose calling?
[03:20:34] < BrandonW> I would love to know what the hell 8066h and 8069h do.
[03:20:34] <+DrDnar> who's
[03:20:58] < BrandonW> They do things with the Flash immediately, so you should have unlocked it prior to calling it. Which is a problem if you don't have an exploit.
[03:21:38] <+DrDnar> And if you haven't, they just return an error, or crash?
[03:21:56] < BrandonW> It would be bad. I'd imagine they crash.
[03:22:10] < BrandonW> They don't check to make sure Flash is unlocked first or anything.
[03:22:19] < BrandonW> In fact, the OS never once checks for that.
[03:22:27] < BrandonW> We just know from trial and error that bit 2 of port 2 determines that.
[03:35:26] <+DrDnar> Why does _newLine need to kill all the registers?
[03:55:09] <+Tari> because scrolling is suck
[03:58:52] < BrandonW> Does it?
[03:59:00] <+Tari> well
[03:59:01] <+Tari> not really
[03:59:24] <+Tari> if it doesn't have to scroll, _newLine probably only modifies hl
[04:00:49] < BrandonW> My OS disassembly says it preserves AF, BC, DE, and HL.
[04:00:54] < BrandonW> And even IX.
[04:01:15] <+Tari> documentation fail, then
[04:01:29] < BrandonW> Oh god, don't pay attention to the SDK PDF.
[04:01:33] <+Tari> "I don't want to look at the code.  Let's just say if modifies everything"
[04:10:15] < Nikky> sounds good to me
[04:10:47] < BrandonW> Of course it does.
[04:15:36] <+DrDnar> seems bcall of the day isn't going far
[04:16:05] < BrandonW> I've been way too busy.
[04:19:19] < BrandonW> Who wants to know the difference between _EraseFlash and _EraseFlashPage?
[04:20:37] <+DrDnar> Is there, BrandonW, is there?
[04:21:58] <+DrDnar> One erases 1E, one doesn't?
[04:22:48] <+DrDnar> What's the 'address to erase' input do?
[04:23:01] < BrandonW> Yes, and that's the other difference.
[04:23:11] < BrandonW> The Flash chip requires a page and address to erase a sector.
[04:23:23] < BrandonW> EraseFlashPage will always use 4000h (the start of a sector) as the address.
[04:23:28] < BrandonW> EraseFlash lets you specify it in HL.
[04:23:46] < BrandonW> Because the certificate sectors are 8KB each and on page 7Eh, you would pass 7Eh and 4000h for the first certificate sector and 7Eh and 6000h for the second.
[04:25:19] <+DrDnar> So. . . it has provisions for partial sector erasure?
[04:26:06] < BrandonW> You always erase a whole sector at once, it's just quirky in that two sectors can reside in the same page.
[04:26:24] < BrandonW> "Page" is really just something logical on the z80.
[04:26:28] < BrandonW> The Flash chip only deals in sectors.
[04:27:08] <+DrDnar> But all sectors are 64K
[04:27:18] < BrandonW> No, most are.
[04:27:24] <+Tari> y'know what's really good for understanding the flash?
[04:27:27] <+Tari> the datasheet
[04:27:37] < BrandonW> I honestly don't know where the rest of it goes in the Flash chip.
[04:27:43] < BrandonW> Not without desoldering it and dumping it.
[04:28:03] < BrandonW> I think it's wasted space.
[04:28:06] < BrandonW> But I don't know.
[04:28:14] < BrandonW> I suspect Tari knows the datasheet better than all of us.
[04:28:47] <+Tari> it all made great sense once I read the datasheed
[04:28:53] <+DrDnar> So there's more space we could, in theory, squeeze out of the flash chip. . .
[04:29:04] < BrandonW> There's no theory behind it.
[04:29:10] < BrandonW> If it exists, there is no way to get at it.
[04:29:14] <+Tari> AMD Am29F400B
[04:29:18] <+Tari> is the model we care about
[04:30:59] <+Tari> One 16 Kbyte, two 8 Kbyte, one 32 Kbyte, and
[04:30:59] <+Tari> seven 64 Kbyte sectors (byte mode)
[04:31:44] < BrandonW> Okay, or that.
[04:32:14] < BrandonW> Everything up to 7Dh is 64KB, 7Eh would have the two 8KB ones, and 7Fh would have the 16KB one.
[04:32:19] < BrandonW> I don't know about the 32KB one.
[04:34:05] <+DrDnar> last sector of archive memory
[04:34:06] <+DrDnar> ?
[04:34:14] < BrandonW> No!
[04:34:23] <+DrDnar> No?
[04:34:23] < BrandonW> Erase sector 68h.
[04:34:30] < BrandonW> You will see 6Ah and 6Bh erased.
[04:35:09] <+Tari> Temporary Sector Unprotect: 12V +- 0.5V on RESET
[04:35:30] < BrandonW> Write something to 69h, and then call EraseFlashPage on 68h, and 6Ah and 6Bh will be empty.
[04:35:34] <+DrDnar> Isn't that the certificate list?
[04:35:48] < BrandonW> Isn't what?
[04:36:00] <+DrDnar> 6A&B
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[04:36:05] < BrandonW> No, they're nothing.
[04:36:06] <+TheStorm> wait is the 32kb one is the boot sector?
[04:36:07] < BrandonW> Totally wasted space.
[04:36:18] < BrandonW> No, the main boot sector is 7Fh.
[04:36:20] <+DrDnar> The SDK lies again?
[04:36:20] < BrandonW> Which is only 16KB.
[04:36:29] < BrandonW> What said 6Ah and 6Bh is the certificate?
[04:36:43] <+DrDnar> The SDK. Says, "certificate list"
[04:37:14] <+DrDnar> which is differnt than certification
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[04:37:50] < BrandonW> That is a flat out lie.
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[04:38:14] <+DrDnar> Maybe they planned to store stuff there and they never did.
[04:40:05] < BrandonW> It's also wrong about 6Ch-6Fh.
[04:40:37] <+DrDnar> Oh? What's there?
[04:40:42] <+Tari> user archive, yes?
[04:40:47] <+DrDnar> Not future OS?
[04:40:48] < BrandonW> That's another hardware-protected sector.
[04:40:57] <+Tari> O_o
[04:41:01] < BrandonW> The second 84+/SE boot code.
[04:41:22] <+DrDnar> That counts as 'future OS use'
[04:41:30]  * Tari needs to find the 84+/SE flash chip datasheet
[04:41:45] <+DrDnar> I guess they'd need all that space for the USB code.
[04:42:06] < BrandonW> You might want to verify that by zeroing out 6C:4000h, but I think the whole sector is protected.
[04:42:10] < BrandonW> 6Fh most certainly is.
[04:42:51] < BrandonW> Page 6Fh contains all of the USB boot code stuff, yes.
[04:43:02] < BrandonW> A copy and modification of 7Fh, more or less.
[04:44:04] <+DrDnar> What's the public key used for?
[04:44:09] <+Tari> I like the 83+ BE flash
[04:44:26] < BrandonW> It's used for everything.
[04:44:36] <+Tari> 0-1D is normal, 1E is certificate, 1F is boot
[04:44:36] < BrandonW> A modulus in RSA-related routines.
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[04:45:09] <+DrDnar> Checking, apps, OS, and all?
[04:45:47] < BrandonW> What do you mean exactly?
[04:46:10] <+Tari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography
[04:46:49] <+DrDnar> I don't know too much about cryptography, other than it often involves very big prime numbers.
[04:47:00] <+DrDnar> And that if you can factor then, you can break them.
[04:47:09] <+Tari> TI uses Rabin
[04:47:16] <+Tari> which is very similar to RSA
[04:47:48] <+DrDnar> Too bad we can't try to crack TI's keys.
[04:47:56] <+Tari> well, we could..
[04:48:06] <+DrDnar> We're just too lazy
[04:48:08] < Nikky> It would most likely take a long while
[04:48:31] <+DrDnar> It's been over ten years. We can wait.
[04:48:46] < BrandonW> Let's all chip in and buy a few PS3s and give it a shot.
[04:49:12] <+Tari> I've forgotten
[04:49:20] <+Tari> are the keys each 512, or 256 bits..?
[04:49:24] <+Tari> I think it's 512
[04:49:28] <+DrDnar> I've got a few computers in the house I could leave running all day.
[04:49:46] <+DrDnar> Two are dual core.
[04:51:21] <+Tari> if I recall correctly, that means 1.54 googol possible keys
[04:51:54] <+DrDnar> No exploits?
[04:52:18] <+Tari> well
[04:52:27] <+Tari> we could try to factor the public key
[04:55:05] <+DrDnar> Well lookie that, the USB interrupt takes presidence over the push-to-test
[04:56:21] <+Tari> might be able to crack it in a couple weeks of a fast machine continously running a NFS
[04:56:28] <+Tari> (that's number field sieve)
[04:56:29] < Ranman> wow... 512 bit encryption for a calc... seems a little overkill
[04:56:42] < BrandonW> Worked, didn't it? :)
[04:56:52] < BrandonW> I would be quite happy if we could crack it within 2 years.
[04:57:39] <+DrDnar> not much info press-to-test
[04:57:57] < BrandonW> I don't guess I ever wrote anything on it.
[04:58:08] < BrandonW> And the USB interrupt takes precedence over anything.
[04:58:13] <+DrDnar> Does it disable all programs, or just ones currently in memory?
[04:58:18] <+DrDnar> Can apps still run?
[04:58:39] < BrandonW> It resets bits in the certificate which indicate whether a certain application or ANY program can run.
[04:58:39] <+DrDnar> If I press to test, and plug in my flash drive, is press-to-test disabled?
[04:59:00] < BrandonW> If you have Press-to-Test enabled, USB auto-start will not work.
[04:59:06] <+DrDnar> Damn, the certificate really is used for everything.
[04:59:17] <+Tari> anyone have a spare (fast) machine running linux that they want to give me ssh access to?
[04:59:29] <+Tari> I might be able to crack the public key within a week
[04:59:44] < Nikky> like a dual quad xeon?
[04:59:44] < BrandonW> I'm extremely skeptical of you being able to factor a 512-bit number in a week.
[04:59:51] < Nikky> sure, but I doubt... what brandon just said
[05:00:02] < BrandonW> A couple of years, sure.
[05:00:08] <+Tari> well, that's 154 digits
[05:00:08] < BrandonW> Maybe even months if we're talking about some kind of monster.
[05:00:22] < BrandonW> The time it takes grows exponentially with each digit.
[05:00:33] <+Tari> It is quite fast, and easily puts 140-150 digit SNFS numbers in range for a single fast machine (in several days or less). I have done special numbers between 110 and 150 digits with it, with a special c150 taking about 2 days on an Athlon XP 3200+. 
[05:00:46] < BrandonW> 150 is nothing.
[05:00:52] < BrandonW> Even 256 is nothing.
[05:00:53] < BrandonW> And 384.
[05:01:01] <+DrDnar> I have a few computers that are 'nice'.
[05:01:14] < BrandonW> None of us own a single machine that can do this in a reasonable amount of time.
[05:01:20] < BrandonW> A very large cluster, possibly.
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[05:01:30] < Ranman> how will you know if you have actually cracked it?
[05:01:30] <+Tari> depends
[05:01:39] <+Tari> are these 'digits' binary, or decimal
[05:01:52] <+DrDnar> I wonder if I could use the ocmputers are school for this.
[05:01:56] < BrandonW> If the two numbers multiply to the public key.
[05:01:56] < Nikky> you'll know because you would have found the factors
[05:02:00] <+Tari> I'm guessing decimal
[05:02:07] < BrandonW> 512 binary digits.
[05:02:25] < Ranman> ahh
[05:03:02] <+DrDnar> I could do it backhandedly. Add it to the bootup list of programs.
[05:03:30] < BrandonW> Less was done with a cluster of 200 PCs over 5 years.
[05:03:42] < Ranman> I assume you know the public key?
[05:03:47] < BrandonW> Yes.
[05:03:52] <+Tari> that's easy
[05:03:56] <+Tari> it's in the certificate
[05:04:02] < BrandonW> It's in the boot code.
[05:04:06] <+DrDnar> Just unlock flash and look in the certificate.
[05:04:23] <+Tari> oh yeah
[05:04:45] <+DrDnar> We should post the public key online.
[05:04:45] < Ranman> so... x * y = public key?
[05:04:55] < BrandonW> Yes.
[05:05:49] < Ranman> interesting... i've never messed around with encryption
[05:06:27] <+Tari> where x and y are 256 bit primes in this case
[05:06:48] < Ranman> do you know at least 'x' or 'y' ?
[05:07:28]  * Ranman that sounded dumb
[05:07:31] < Ranman> XD
[05:07:53] < BrandonW> Because it was.
[05:07:56] <+Tari> yeah..
[05:08:07] <+Tari> if we knew one, just divide the public key by it
[05:08:08] < BrandonW> If we knew one of them, this would be an algebra equation.
[05:08:10] < Ranman> i know... i just realized it after I typed it XD
[05:08:32] <+DrDnar> I wonder how many 256 bit primes there are.
[05:09:33] < BrandonW> A lot.
[05:10:17] <+DrDnar> List all primes from 1 to 1.157920892373162e+77
[05:11:37] <+Tari> yeah..
[05:11:40] <+Tari> that would be trillions
[05:11:44] <+Tari> at least
[05:12:10] <+Tari> there are six million between 2 and 104917093
[05:12:21] <+Tari> now multiply that by a lot
[05:12:35] <+Tari> it's much easier to put our own public key in the certificate ;)
[05:13:06] <+DrDnar> Only about 1e75 primes
[05:13:23] <+Tari> yeah..
[05:14:06] <+Tari> at an average of about 37 bytes to store them..
[05:14:19] <+Tari> [each]
[05:14:54] <+Tari> or I guess 19 bytes if you have bcd
[05:16:57] <+Tari> that's 19 quattuorvigintillion bytes
[05:17:38] <+Tari> if I recall, there aren't enough particles in the universe to encode all that data
[05:20:02] <+Tari> well, since I'm sitting here eating cookies
[05:20:06]  * Tari writes deAllocVar
[05:25:31] < Ranman> so... once you find x and y... what do you do with them?
[05:25:56] <+DrDnar> Well. . . you add it to your resume.
[05:25:57] < BrandonW> We can use them to sign a payload.
[05:26:08] < BrandonW> Meaning our own OS.
[05:26:48] < Ranman> i mean... do you combine them to make a single 512 bit key to use as a mask?
[05:27:29] <+DrDnar> It means you have the private key used to encrypt the data.
[05:27:34] < BrandonW> The 512-bit key is the modulus in the calculation for encryption.
[05:27:39] < BrandonW> The two primes are also used.
[05:27:46] < BrandonW> Wikipedia RSA.
[05:28:30] < Ranman> thanks... very interesting
[05:29:00] < BrandonW> It's actually the MD5 hash you're encrypting.
[05:29:16] < Spence1> whoooah I missed some but that sounds like app signing
[05:29:28] <+DrDnar> OS signing.
[05:29:35] < BrandonW> Yeah, Spence here knows all about app signing.
[05:29:38] < BrandonW> Which is the same as OS signing.
[05:30:49] < Spence1> Wabbit oddly comes from name "Rabin"
[05:30:50] < Spence1> haha
[05:31:23] < BrandonW> I thought it came from Rabbitsign.
[05:31:31] < Spence1> which came from Rabin
[05:31:42] < BrandonW> So by oddly, you mean indirectly.
[05:31:46] < Spence1> "Windows Rabbitsign"
[05:31:53] < Spence1> wabbitsign
[05:34:05] < Spence1> I remember looking at this
[05:34:06] < Spence1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabin_cryptosystem
[05:35:00] <+Tari> yup
[05:35:03] <+Tari> I've looked at that
[05:35:18] <+Tari> for my pack8xu util
[05:35:21] <+Tari> which never went far
[05:35:42] <+Tari> I never did see if wappsign would sign os images
[05:36:03] <+DrDnar> Actually, if I need space to temporally store a variable's name to display, I can use an OP register.
[05:36:23] <+Tari> indeed
[05:36:58] <+Tari> man, deAllocVar was easy to write
[05:37:22] <+Tari> it's 20 lines
[05:37:38] <+Tari> alloVar is 66
[05:37:45] <+Tari> *allocVar
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[06:00:39] <+DrDnar> It seems that the address stored in archived variables points to the start of entry (the flag byte), not the data.
[06:01:47] < BrandonW> I'm mistaken again!
[06:01:57] <+DrDnar> My page 08 data reads 0f fc 67 01 06 00 00 01 40 08 08 name
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[06:02:09] <+DrDnar> Parse it yourself.
[06:03:07] < BrandonW> 0f?
[06:03:13] <+DrDnar> f0
[06:03:51] <+DrDnar> I was in doubly little-endian mode
[06:04:29] <+DrDnar> Get your calc and check the first entry in your page 08 or 0c yourself.
[06:04:44] <+DrDnar> It points to 4001
[06:05:21] < BrandonW> I do believe you...
[06:05:33] <+DrDnar> I feel smrt! S M R T!
[06:07:49] <+DrDnar> Which is kinda strange. I'd think it'd point to the VAT, not the header.
[06:08:13] < BrandonW> I think I'd remove those bytes completely, but forgive me, that's actually a somewhat sane idea.
[06:08:16] < BrandonW> And we can't have that.
[06:08:21] < BrandonW> Not with the OS, anyway.
[06:09:22] < BrandonW> Although, the purpose might be to quickly restore VAT entries.
[06:09:30] < BrandonW> You can probably copy that as-is straight to RAM after a reset.
[06:09:52] <+DrDnar> Then why not point it to the VAT entry, not the header? Hmm/
[06:10:04] < BrandonW> Because you need to point it to the start of the header.
[06:10:16] < BrandonW> To know if it's deleted, and how to skip to the next one.
[06:10:40] <+DrDnar> Okay.
[06:10:41] < BrandonW> Pointing to the middle of a block of memory allocated to that variable doesn't make much sense.
[06:11:00] < BrandonW> But even still, having those bytes there at all is a waste.
[06:11:04] < BrandonW> There's nothing right about it.
[06:11:09] <+DrDnar> I need to adjust my code. I thought it was a little strange that my sanity check failed so perfectly
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[07:01:18] <+DrDnar> Dang. Reading the header is tricky because the header can cross page boundarys.
[07:08:21] <+DrDnar> You know what? Damn page-crossing headers. They're gonna be rare, right? I'll not process them, at least for now.
[07:08:46] <+DrDnar> Later I can include a little code to buffer headers which stradel page boundries.
[07:12:49] <+DrDnar> Now why is ld b,0 causing an infinate loop?
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[14:08:04] -!- mode/#tiasm [+v TheStorm] by efneTI89, efneTI86, efneTI83
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[17:33:39] -!- mode/#tiasm [+v DrDnar] by efneTI81
[17:35:21] <+Storm|wrk> hey DrDnar
[17:35:27] <+DrDnar> hi
[17:43:21] <+DrDnar> BrandonW, isn't there a b_call to wait for the user to press enter like the Pause command in BASIC?
[17:44:24] <+Storm|wrk> I think its 84 only...
[17:44:29] <+Storm|wrk> but I'm not sure
[17:45:24] <+DrDnar> Oh come on, they implement everything as b_calls, it seems.
[17:48:11] <+Tari> meh
[17:48:25] <+Tari> you can do it in 7 bytes
[17:48:39] <+Tari> 9 if you want to change the run indicator, too
[17:51:18] <+Tari> 6/8 if you don't halt
[17:51:53] <+DrDnar> Way ahead of you
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[20:11:09] <+Storm|wrk> hows it coming DrDnar?
[20:11:14] <+Storm|wrk> comming*
[20:11:17] <+Storm|wrk> w/e
[20:23:24] <+DrDnar> Slowly getting there.
[20:24:43] <+Storm|wrk> thats good
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[20:46:47] -!- mode/#tiasm [+v Tari] by efneTI89
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[21:47:05] -!- mode/#tiasm [+v Storm|wrk] by efneTI81
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[22:49:07] <+DrDnar> I need less informative error messages. One-third of my program is text.
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[23:06:20] -!- mode/#tiasm [+v Tari] by efneTI80
[23:45:00] <+DrDnar> http://pws.cablespeed.com/~tehblueblur/ti83p/archutil.z80 and http://pws.cablespeed.com/~tehblueblur/ti83p/archutil.z80
[23:46:07] <+DrDnar> Should be stable. Doesn't do any actual undeleteing, but it's getting there.
--- Log closed Thu Jul 17 00:00:08 2008