--- Log opened Fri Nov 28 08:49:45 2008
08:51  * chronomex huggles V200
08:58 < V200> nerds
08:59 <@chronomex> retard
08:59 <@chronomex> cold soulless machine
09:00 < millinao> test
09:00 <@chronomex> fail
09:00 < millinao> thats sooo cool
09:00 <@chronomex> whuut
09:00 -!- _aegis_ [~aegis@216.7.57.152] has joined #tcpa
09:00 < _aegis_> orly
09:00 -!- mode/#tcpa [+v _aegis_] by efneTI81
09:02 < V200> rly
09:02 <+_aegis_> yarly?!
09:02 <@chronomex> http://articles.lancasteronline.com/ap/4/pa_grafitti_myspace_clue
09:02 <@chronomex> retard
--- Log closed Fri Nov 28 09:04:47 2008
--- Log opened Fri Nov 28 09:05:06 2008
09:05 < V200> :(
09:05 < millinao> "devient art"?
09:05 < millinao> what is this guy an emo
09:06 < V200> yes
09:06 <@chronomex> woman
09:06 <@chronomex> emo + moron
--- Log closed Fri Nov 28 09:07:11 2008
--- Log opened Fri Nov 28 09:07:41 2008
09:08 < V200> hi
09:08 < V200> test
11:47 -!- benryves [~benryves@host86-133-13-85.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #cemetech
13:10 -!- tifreak [DanielThor@dialup-4.225.5.91.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net] has joined #cemetech
13:10 -!- mode/#cemetech [+o tifreak] by Ginsburg
13:10 -!- mode/#cemetech [+v tifreak] by ZiLOG80, CalcGames
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16:03 -!- tifreak [DanielThor@dialup-4.225.5.91.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net] has quit [Quit: have fun gents!]
16:10 < benryves> Is it possible/practical/easy to rename TI-OS variables? I imagine that if you kept the name the same length you could possibly get away by modifying the VAT directly, and there's always the memory-wasting trick of creating a copy then deleting the original...
16:13 <+Tari> you could also insert a new VAT entry for it and remove the old one
16:13 < benryves> That sounds like a good idea. Hm. I won't be handing archive variables, only ones in RAM, so that should make life a bit easier.
16:15 < Tsukasa> I envy you people who comprehend this stuff...
16:16 < benryves> Tsukasa: Hehe, start reading? :)
16:16 < Tsukasa> I've tried several times. It makes no sense to me and hurts my brain.
16:17 < benryves> Start slower? :\
16:17 < Tsukasa> The first three chapters of Asm in 28 Days hurt my brain
16:18 < benryves> Did you ask for help from someone?
16:18 < Tsukasa> Nah
16:18 < benryves> Maybe you should. :)
16:18 < Tsukasa> I'll just keep reading that tutorial until my brain finally gets it.
16:18 < benryves> Plenty of friendly people around, if you don't understand something you could always ask for clarification.
16:18 < Tsukasa> I really don't want to ask for clarification on the entire language
16:19 < benryves> No, which is why you download the Z80 user manual and flip to the instruction reference in the back.
16:22 < Tsukasa> It still makes no sense to me
16:22 < benryves> Well, can you remember anything specific?
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16:24 < Tsukasa> hm?
16:24 < benryves> What didn't you understand? Or did you not understand anything? :|
16:25 -!- mode/#cemetech [+o CalcMaze] by Ginsburg, ZiLOG80
16:25 < Tsukasa> I don't really understand anything beyond the header
16:25 < benryves> Do you do any other programming? :|
16:25 < Tsukasa> TI-BASIC, PHP, Java, some little bit of C++
16:26 < benryves> So it should be pretty straightforwards, I'd have thought. :)
16:26 < Tsukasa> Nah, I can only understand conditional and boolean languages.
16:27 < benryves> And what do you mean by that?
16:27 < Tsukasa> that is to say, things that use if-then-else-end
16:27 < Tsukasa> while, for, do
16:27 < Tsukasa> etc.etc.
16:27 < Tsukasa> Anything with that sort of structure is a breeze for me
16:27 < Tsukasa> Just about any high level language is
16:27 < benryves> I see. You can replicate that structure in Z80 relatively easily.
16:28 < Tsukasa> but low-level languages like Assembler is just too hard for some reason
16:29 < benryves> Hmm
16:29 < benryves> There's more work involved, certainly.
16:29 < Tsukasa> It's going in both brains and out the other again.....
16:30 < benryves> Heh. Pretty much all you have in Z80 assembly is IF <conditional> THEN GOTO <label>, but you can build all the structures you mentioned out of that basic building block.
16:31 < Tsukasa> Registers are frying my brain again X_x;;
16:31 <+Tari> well, what about them?
16:31 <+Tari> just think of a register as a variable
16:31 <+Tari> but you have a set number of them
16:31 < Tsukasa> My background in C/Java makes this easier, but my brain still refuses to accept it
16:32 < benryves> Indeed, it's a bit like the real numbers in the TI-OS; you only have A-Z and theta to play with.
16:32 < Tsukasa> oh fxz it, is there an ASM for Dummies book I can buy?
16:33 < benryves> CoBB's guide is good, http://users.hszk.bme.hu/~pg429/z80guide/
16:34 < benryves> http://users.hszk.bme.hu/~pg429/z80guide/part1.htm has a good overview, I think.
16:37 < Tsukasa> that first link actually explains this in english
16:37 < Tsukasa> It doesn't go all obfuscating on me =)
16:37 < benryves> Yes, it starts with a nice descriptive overview of the basics rather than diving straight into working programs.
16:38 < Tsukasa> stupid ASM in 28 Days. Must go print it out and burn it.....
16:38 < benryves> CoBB's guide is more general Z80, whereas 28 days is focussed on the TI calculator.
16:39 < Tsukasa> ah
16:41 < Tsukasa> ASM is the 2nd language I'll be learning by reading. Almost every other language I know I've learned by jumping right in and doing.
16:42 < benryves> Assembly is not very forgiving so you can't really learn it by trial and error.
16:42 < Tsukasa> Sure I can....
16:44 < Tsukasa> GAh.... frying brain again...........
16:44 < benryves> Tsukasa: Pause: What's causing the brain-frying?
16:44 < Tsukasa> attempting to understand stacks and arrays
16:45 < benryves> Do you understand stacks in Java?
16:45 < Tsukasa> there are stacks in Java?
16:45 < benryves> Of course. It's a basic data structure found in most environments. :)
16:46 < Tsukasa> Well, my school apparently doesn't believe it's basic. I haven't learned anything about that in Java class =/
16:47 < benryves> Think of it like a stack of cards. You you "push" items onto the top of the stack and "pop" them off the top. So, if you push "1" then "2" then "3" you'll pop them off in the order "3", "2", "1".
16:47 < benryves> (For this reason it's called a first-in, last-out data structure).
16:48 < Tsukasa> Ah... well... I sort of understood that.. it just fries my brain anyway
16:50 -!- KermM [~KermM@dhcp72.ee.cooper.edu] has joined #cemetech
16:50 < benryves> For example, the PC register points to the next instruction in memory to execute. When you "jump" (via a "jp" or "jr", like GOTO in BASIC) the PC is changed to point somewhere else. If instead you "call" a routine the current value of PC is pushed onto the stack. Later, when you "ret"urn from the routine the Z80 pops the value that was previously stored on the stack back into PC.
16:50 -!- mode/#cemetech [+v KermM] by CalcGames
16:51 < Tsukasa> ah
16:52 < Tsukasa> It'd help immensely if my brain wasn't frying and would actually store this in MY memory >_<
16:52 < benryves> This is the same mechanism that is used on Java, C and so on. If you write a piece of code like this - void SomeMethod() { SomeMethod(); } - then call SomeMethod() it will constantly be pushing the return address onto the stack (as it never returns from the function) until you end up with a StackOverflowException.
16:53 < Tsukasa> lolinfiniteloop
16:53 < Tsukasa> ah
16:53 < benryves> Nope, not an infinite loop - infinite recursion.
16:53 < Tsukasa> same difference
16:53 < benryves> No, they are different. :)
16:54 < Tsukasa> recursion IS a loop in my brain
16:54 < Tsukasa> don't insult my neural connections!
16:54 < Tsukasa> what few I have left....
16:55 < benryves> Tsukasa: Recursion is a function calling itself.
16:55 < Tsukasa> I know what recursion is
16:55 < benryves> Then don't confuse it with looping. :P
16:55 < Tsukasa> I just always consider it a form of looping in my mind
16:55 < Tsukasa> that it starts off with itself, loops back to itself, then loops back to itself again, etc...
16:56 < Tsukasa> that's just my method of remembering recursion
16:59 < benryves> I suppose. :)
16:59 < Tsukasa> I still wish I could remember what I'm reading.... it's still going in both brains and out the other
17:00 < benryves> The expression is "in one ear and out of the other". :P
17:00 < Tsukasa> no, no, that's for listening
17:00 < Tsukasa> I'm reading
17:00 < Tsukasa> it's entering both brains simultaneously through vision
17:01 < Tsukasa> the brains swap what they got with each other
17:01 < Tsukasa> and then the info just deletes itself
17:07 <+KermM> What's up, guys?
17:08 < Tsukasa> I'm frying my brain >_<
17:08 < Tsukasa> I think that's enough of me trying to learn ASM for the umpteenth time for one day
17:08 < benryves> 'lo KermM, and ↑. How about you?
17:12 < Tsukasa> *facepalm* I think everything I just 'learned' left my brain already
17:13 <+KermM> benryves: nadda
17:52 < Tsukasa> Well... I'm bored. I should probably work on something
17:53 < benryves> Learning Z80 assembly. :D
17:54 < Tsukasa> I learned ENOUGH for one day
17:54 < Tsukasa> and I didn't really learn it! I forgot it all!
17:55 < benryves> Did you try and put any of the ideas into practice?
17:56 < Tsukasa> No
17:56 < Tsukasa> Didn't really know HOW to put it into practice
17:58 < benryves> :(
17:59 <+KermM> do it!
17:59 <+KermM> that's the best way to learn
18:00 < Tsukasa> I don't know how
18:01 < benryves> Writing little test programs?
18:01 < Tsukasa> with what?
18:04 <+KermM> assembly, notepad++, and brass
18:04 < Tsukasa> I have none of those
18:04 < benryves> s/notepad++/Programmers Notepad 2
18:04 < benryves> Well, that's what I use anyway. :)
18:05  * benryves recommends TASM instead of Brass for beginners, anyway.
18:05 < Tsukasa> Why am I learning ASM again?
18:05 < benryves> <Tsukasa> I envy you people who comprehend this stuff...
18:06 < Tsukasa> That was just a general statement
18:06 < Tsukasa> I can't think of any practical application for me learning ASM
18:14 <+KermM> ...to program??
18:14 <+KermM> games and programs for calcs?
18:14 < Tsukasa> I don't program for the calc anymore though...
18:15 < Tsukasa> nothing useful, anyway
18:17 <+KermM> that can change...
18:17 <+KermM> if you want it to
18:18 < Tsukasa> Everything's been done really =/
18:19 < benryves> Nope, not at all.
18:19 <+KermM> definitely not
18:20 < Tsukasa> Well, everything I can think of, anyway
18:20 < benryves> Very few - if any - 80s-style flick-screen exploration games.
18:20 < Tsukasa> 80s style what?
18:21 < benryves> Though that's probably due to the terrible screen resolution.
18:21 < benryves> Tsukasa: Games like The Castle or Palace of Magic.
18:21 < Tsukasa> I repeat, what?
18:22 <+KermM> no one has done a real tcp stacl
18:22 <+KermM> stack
18:22 < benryves> Tsukasa: Games made up of a series of rooms to explore (viewed from side-on) with puzzles to solve.
18:22 < Tsukasa> ah
18:23 < benryves> eg http://www.mobygames.com/game/msx/castle/screenshots :)
18:23 < Tsukasa> oh
18:24 < benryves> I suppose tr1p1ea's "Desolate" is the closest.
18:25 < benryves> A Jet Set Willy clone would also be awesome. :D
18:27 < Tsukasa> You and your games....
18:27 -!- Tari [~Tari@mke-67-208-62-117.milwpc.com] has quit [Quit: bai guyz]
18:27 < benryves> Bah. Jet Set Willy was ace. :(
18:28 < Tsukasa> That wasn't meant to be insulting the game, it was meant to be a lead-up to an ironic statement of gaming when you should be working
18:28 < Tsukasa> but I had to AFK to help someone with a computer issue
18:28 < benryves> Huh?
18:29 < Tsukasa> I was going to say "You and your games.... you should be working, not playing!"
18:29 < benryves> Who says I'm playing?
18:29 < Tsukasa> *headdesk* it's supposed to be a joke! Laugh, nod, move on!
18:29 < benryves> I was just reminiscing about the classics of yesteryear. :P
18:30 <+KermM> lolbritish, "ace"
18:30 < benryves> Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
18:31 <+KermM> do what now?
18:31 < Tsukasa> hahahh... British English always makes me laugh, sorry.
18:31 < benryves> KermM: You need to watch more Red Dwarf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKsjaOqDXgg :D
18:32 <+KermM> obviously I do.
18:33 < benryves> Tsukasa: Bah, it's not "British English", it's just "English". As in the language the English (ie, people from England) speak. :P
18:35 < Tsukasa> I call it 'British English' to differentiate it from 'American English', the language we Americans speak and call 'english'
18:35 < benryves> (Are you ever going to think of a name for yourself?) :(
18:35 <+KermM> we should be speaking American!\
18:36 < Tsukasa> We should be speaking Nonsensian. Since our language is the least static language in existence. Who can learn it?
18:36 <+KermM> true story
18:37 < Tsukasa> Everyday, we change up something about our language. Every other day, we take a common phrase and turn it into sexual innuendo or profane slang.
18:39 <+KermM> and every day we adopt new words from other languages
18:39 < benryves> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHEN20RB8UM :)
18:39 <+KermM> and construct new compounds
18:52 -!- benryves [~benryves@host86-133-13-85.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: benryves]
19:20 < Tsukasa> mmm.... leftover turkey
19:37 <+KermM> om nom nom
19:38 < Tsukasa> Thanksgiving needs to be more frequent than once a year
19:41 <+KermM> lol
19:47  * Tsukasa is away (away: Turkeycide 2008 - Take 2 - ACTION!)
20:22  * Tsukasa has returned (return: Back from lunch)
20:26 <+KermM> wb
20:26 < Tsukasa> ty
20:30 < Tsukasa> hmm... I should work on my site some more
20:30 < Tsukasa> I guess I could actually take a stab at my own site archives
20:31  * Tsukasa pokes the archives with a spork
20:32 < Tsukasa> hmm... no effect
21:07 <+KermM> lol
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23:16 -!- mode/#cemetech [+o tifreak] by Ginsburg
23:16 -!- mode/#cemetech [+v tifreak] by Milton
23:20 <@tifreak> Good evening
23:23 <+KermM> good evening, sir
23:23 < Tsukasa> 'lo tifreak
23:23 <@tifreak> How is everyone doing today?
23:23 < Tsukasa> swell, I suppose
23:24 <+KermM> swell indeed
23:26 <@tifreak> gonna finish off this plate of food, grab a shower, and see what can't be done on pokemon tonight...
23:27 < Tsukasa> You're going to grab a shower? What do you intend to do with it?
23:30 <@tifreak> soak down your computer
23:31 < Tsukasa> And what do you think that will do?
23:32 <@tifreak> umm... cause it to short out and make you lose what little, tiny piece of sanity you are holding on to because you could not connect to the internet
23:32 <@tifreak> :P
23:32 <+KermM> lol
23:33 <+KermM> so cruel!
23:33 < Tsukasa> Uh.... this computer is immune to water-based attacks
23:33 < Tsukasa> trust me, I've accidentally doused the thing a million times
23:33 < Tsukasa> well, a hyperbolic million times
23:38 <+KermM> oic
23:38 < Tsukasa> and if this computer ever stops working, I can always just use another one =P
--- Log closed Sat Nov 29 00:00:44 2008